Tab History Removal - Why??????

jimVisage1980jimVisage1980 Posts: 22 Silver 1
in SQL Prompt
With the removal of Tab History from SQL Prompt I'm sure I'm not the only one tearing my hair out in frustration in using what is supposed to replace it. i.e. The awful SQL History
Yet another example of Redgate not listening to the paying customer who use SQL Prompt day in, day out.
I was using Tab History on a daily basis. It was perfect for my needs and didn't have any problems.
Now, for reasons I cannot fathom it has just been removed and we're told to use a replacement that is a poor substitute.

Does anybody else feel like I do? If so, then add your comments. I'm sure there is room for both Tab History and SQL History in SQL Prompt. So please Redgate bring back Tab History!
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  • aisbergaisberg Posts: 15 Bronze 1
    I have the same issue. Tab History was the most used feature. Now it is missing. And it looks like, there is some "history" instead of.

    But this "History" can't be used as well as the "Tab History" before. It is all more cumbersome.

    And a big problem is: I can't find how to rename the queries. Before (in Tab history) I used favorites, they got names. And that way I could organize the scripts. Now there is no more way to rename, at least not through the GUI. How to work with it, if there is now "SQLQuery4.sql", "SQLQuery5.sql" etc.? Or do I now have to save a query under a specific name first, so that it gets a proper name? But then you can also use the built-in functionality of SSMS to save and open scripts. Where is the added value then?

    So please, if no "Tab History", then please provide the whole functionality again.
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    OMG how do I get  my TAB HISTORY tab back? If this SQL History is supposed to replace it then someone dropped the ball big time because this thing sucks; at least for a quick easy to search like Tab History was.  
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    jimVisage1980 said:
    With the removal of Tab History from SQL Prompt I'm sure I'm not the only one tearing my hair out in frustration in using what is supposed to replace it. i.e. The awful SQL History
    Yet another example of Redgate not listening to the paying customer who use SQL Prompt day in, day out.
    I was using Tab History on a daily basis. It was perfect for my needs and didn't have any problems.
    Now, for reasons I cannot fathom it has just been removed and we're told to use a replacement that is a poor substitute.

    Does anybody else feel like I do? If so, then add your comments. I'm sure there is room for both Tab History and SQL History in SQL Prompt. So please Redgate bring back Tab History!
    YES! you are certainly NOT alone in this frustration. Even though there's just a few posts about it so far I imagine as more update their version of SQL Prompt they too will be very angered by how this was implemented; as a replacement of a highly useful and seemingly popular feature instead of making it an addiotnal feature so users could choose which to use. It's not unlike the Microsoft Ribbon fiasco where MS pushed out the Ribbon against users wishes and so many were frustrated with it that it spawned an industry of 3rd party vendors who provided apps that people would pay for, just to get rid of the ribbon and regain the menu & tool bar it removed. A very shameful period for MS. 
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  • Rob_IQRob_IQ Posts: 17 Bronze 5
    EdCarden said:
    OMG how do I get  my TAB HISTORY tab back? If this SQL History is supposed to replace it then someone dropped the ball big time because this thing sucks; at least for a quick easy to search like Tab History was.  
    The best stable version with Tab Histoy that I use is 10.12.4.29949
    which you can get to and download from this page:
    https://documentation.red-gate.com/sp/release-notes-and-other-versions/sql-prompt-10-12-release-notes

    *** Newer versions of 10.12 have Tab History too but seem to have a threading bug and often throw semaphore related exceptions (they don't crash ssms but do pop up).

    If you uninstall 10.13.x and then install this version, your current history shoudl remain intact. At least that was my experience a few times ao far.
    You can always manually backup you the history files just in case something goes wrong.
    Those files should be here:
    %localappdata%\Red Gate\SQL Prompt 10\



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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    Rob_IQ said:
    EdCarden said:
    OMG how do I get  my TAB HISTORY tab back? If this SQL History is supposed to replace it then someone dropped the ball big time because this thing sucks; at least for a quick easy to search like Tab History was.  
    The best stable version with Tab Histoy that I use is 10.12.4.29949
    which you can get to and download from this page:
    https://documentation.red-gate.com/sp/release-notes-and-other-versions/sql-prompt-10-12-release-notes

    *** Newer versions of 10.12 have Tab History too but seem to have a threading bug and often throw semaphore related exceptions (they don't crash ssms but do pop up).

    If you uninstall 10.13.x and then install this version, your current history shoudl remain intact. At least that was my experience a few times ao far.
    You can always manually backup you the history files just in case something goes wrong.
    Those files should be here:
    %localappdata%\Red Gate\SQL Prompt 10\



    Thanks
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  • jimVisage1980jimVisage1980 Posts: 22 Silver 1
    Redgate dropped the ball BIG TIME with this. 
    Not even anything said in the release notes about Tab History being removed.
    I'm already thinking of using another product when renewal time comes around.
    Total lack of respect for people who have used SQL Prompt for a long time. 
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    jimVisage1980 said:
    Redgate dropped the ball BIG TIME with this. 
    Not even anything said in the release notes about Tab History being removed.
    I'm already thinking of using another product when renewal time comes around.
    Total lack of respect for people who have used SQL Prompt for a long time. 
    I am equally upset over this and believe this was very unprofessional but Red-Gate has a history of being a great vendor and treating customers well (or at least that's been my experience) and I've been one for over a decade so I'm giving them a pass on this as long as they do the right thing about it and I believe they are. 
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  • AlexisonfireAlexisonfire Posts: 5 Bronze 1
    Fully agree.. Hitting ctrl-q all day like a maniac. Hope Redgate does something about this mess, and i hope they do it quick.

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  • GaryHGaryH Posts: 6 Bronze 2
    I downgraded to 10.12 to get Tab History back.  SQL History is just an awful half-baked mess.  It's slow, it hijacks ctrl-Tab so you have to use the mouse to get out of it, tons of useless iterations to scroll through (again, so slooooow), search just plain doesn't work.  Who on earth thought that gigantic throbber was a good idea?

    Red Gate, please offer Tab History as an option in future versions, and for your own good, reassign everyone involved in the design of SQL History to someplace where they can't hurt anything.

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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    Be warned that when you downgrade there's a chance Tab History will still be the victim of whatever changes SQL History permanently made. I uninstalled SQL Prompt and re-installed the last version with Tab History and to this day despite help from RG Support it's slow. It's not as bad as SQL History but it's not quick like it used to be.  Takes 10-20 seconds before it show's any search results
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    Red-gate - If its not clear by now yo got a number of paying customers asking you NOT to fix SQL History but to make it optional ,completely separate the 2 so there's nothing shared. Maybe that will fix the slowness that SQL history causes to Tab History for this of us who downgrade to escape SQL History
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  • Rob_IQRob_IQ Posts: 17 Bronze 5
    Anyone from Red-Gate care to provide any updates?
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    It's been over 30 days guys and nothing aside from "Were working on it". We all work with code and we know things take time but for something like this I think a monthly update isn't asking for too much. 
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  • jimVisage1980jimVisage1980 Posts: 22 Silver 1
    Another thing to consider for those who've reverted to an older version of SQL Prompt in order to get Tab History. The older version will not work with SSMS 19.x  :(


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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    jimVisage1980 said:
    Another thing to consider for those who've reverted to an older version of SQL Prompt in order to get Tab History. The older version will not work with SSMS 19.x  :(


    Jim - Have you had any issues with SSMS19? I installed it many months back and ended up having to stop using it after about 2 weeks because the thing always connects to the same server regardless of what server I specify. It's like stuck to one server. 
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  • jimVisage1980jimVisage1980 Posts: 22 Silver 1
    EdCarden said:
    jimVisage1980 said:
    Another thing to consider for those who've reverted to an older version of SQL Prompt in order to get Tab History. The older version will not work with SSMS 19.x  :(


    Jim - Have you had any issues with SSMS19? I installed it many months back and ended up having to stop using it after about 2 weeks because the thing always connects to the same server regardless of what server I specify. It's like stuck to one server. 
    Not using SSMS 19 hugely at the moment due to lack of support for some 3rd party tools. But connections are fine. Using version 19.02
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  • SQLSiSQLSi Posts: 2 Bronze 1
    Agreed - the new History GUI could've been designed to be more intuitive.  My assumption was, red-gate had mistakenly released an older, (never before seen) defunct version of the tab history, but it seems not. 

    The previous GUI was very easy to use in comparison. 

    In the sprit of giving constructive feedback, I'd recommend those responsible have a look at this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
     
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    SQLSi said:
    Agreed - the new History GUI could've been designed to be more intuitive.  My assumption was, red-gate had mistakenly released an older, (never before seen) defunct version of the tab history, but it seems not. 

    The previous GUI was very easy to use in comparison. 

    In the sprit of giving constructive feedback, I'd recommend those responsible have a look at this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
     
    Well said. 
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  • ggeier2ggeier2 Posts: 10 Bronze 1
    I've tried to use the SQL History for quite some time now, but it just doesn't work. The tab history was perfect. But in History -- I can't find anything, it's a mess.

    Will there be any issues with me downgrading? I am using ssms 18.12.1 and SQL Prompt 10.13.15.3135.
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  • Rob_IQRob_IQ Posts: 17 Bronze 5
    Its definitly a mess.
    I was hoping it would be a lot better by now... but it isn't.
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  • jimVisage1980jimVisage1980 Posts: 22 Silver 1
    Rob_IQ said:
    Its definitly a mess.
    I was hoping it would be a lot better by now... but it isn't.
    And Redgate still aren't listening!
    Come renewal time for SQL Prompt licence this year I might just be saying, "Maybe we should look at another product from a company that doesn't seemingly treat it's loyal customers with indifference"

    It quite simple, SQL History has it's uses, but Tab History is better at other things that SQL History is not.

    So just bring back Tab History!

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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    jimVisage1980 said:
    Rob_IQ said:
    Its definitly a mess.
    I was hoping it would be a lot better by now... but it isn't.
    And Redgate still aren't listening!
    Come renewal time for SQL Prompt licence this year I might just be saying, "Maybe we should look at another product from a company that doesn't seemingly treat it's loyal customers with indifference"

    It quite simple, SQL History has it's uses, but Tab History is better at other things that SQL History is not.

    So just bring back Tab History!

    I believe that RedGate doesn’t view Tab History as a product or part of one so much as a bonus feature they don't charge extra for so no one has any right to complain about it since it's a freebie. To that end why bother doing what the customers are requesting, just do whatever you want at least so long as its a free add on. I get the feeling that 1 or more persons with influence at RedGaye is behind this nonsense of no we can't bring Tab History back. I believe they also realize if they do then the data they collect of use of SQL Prompt will prove that customers use Tab History more often which would them make SQL HISTORY look like a bad product so just take away the customers ability to choose which one they prefer.

    I'm not against their initial goal of a more robust and feature rich version of Tab History but they still should have kept both and let the customer determine which one is better 
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  • ATurnerATurner Posts: 204 Silver 2
    Hi all,
    SQL History has replaced tab history, thus it will not be coming back. However, the team is actively reading your feedback on what can be done to improve SQL History. In order to help us prioritize our development efforts, we would like to ask you to provide us with some concrete examples on how SQL history is not meeting your needs. This will help us understand your pain points better and address them more effectively.
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    edited April 20, 2024 7:37PM
    NOTE: YOu guys REALLY need a cancel or Quit button in these forums, I initially had a post that was messed up and there was no way to get rid of the thing so I had to delete the contents and put in the word TEST and POST it simply to get back to a regular REPLY page.
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    ATurner said:
    Hi all,
    SQL History has replaced tab history, thus it will not be coming back. However, the team is actively reading your feedback on what can be done to improve SQL History. In order to help us prioritize our development efforts, we would like to ask you to provide us with some concrete examples on how SQL history is not meeting your needs. This will help us understand your pain points better and address them more effectively.
    I'll take that bet!

    Speed, design, ease of use ,beta build and just plain old lack of consideration.

    At launch SQL History was dog arse slow and more buggy than a pile of dog poop in the middle of summer.  I will grant you that a year later and who knows how many updates later it's finally operating at an acceptable speed.

    One major issue aside from speed was the drastic change in the UI between the 2. Tab History was a fast lightweight tool that at times one might think the thing was able to anticipate what you wanted.  Even you guys saw SQL History as enough of being different from Tab History that you changed the name. I don't remember where this was I want to say someone from Red-Gate mentioned that SQL History was a new from the ground up product and not just Tab History with a whole lot of changes and additions. That means it was a different product yet instead of treating it as such you had it replace another product verses being an addition. I believe somewhere someone from RedGate said something along the lines of SQL History using resources (i.e.e files, locations, history, ect) and that's why the 2 couldn't co-exist and because SQL History made some changes to those resources there was no way to let customers pick between the 2. If true that was a design decision that could have been done differently. It looks like from the start the plan was to replace Tab History vs treating SQL HIstory as another product and that too was a choice you guys made not us.  SQL History should have been a separate product that instead of taking over resources Tab History used it could have used it's own set and coped from Tab Historys resources what ever is needed so the 2 are separated. Had you done that so your customers could have a choice between the  adoption of SQL History would have been a slow and lengthy process because after the messy state SQL History was in at release few would have been willing to give it a chance again anytime soon. 

    Tab History was an easy to use lightweight add-on that was great at what it did. Sure it didn't do as much as SQL History but maybe many or even a majority of your customers were happy with it like that; they weren't looking to to "Office Up" the thing. That's where a simple and effective software tool becomes bloated as the vendor keeps trying to find more things for it to do to justify customers continuing to upgrade.  When Tab History was introduced I didn't need to get a How To manual or guide to figure it out. One of software developments biggest issues is that those working on the product know it inside and out so you can't see it the way your customer would, someone who doesn't know the thing like you do so what appears to be common knowledge to you isn't to the customer. Microsoft probably has the biggest screw-up in recent history on this when they pushed out that Ribbon UX in their products but at least for a few years they did make it optional.  I'll tell you what I told their feedback dept about the ribbon, when the unwanted change you push out top your customers causes an entire industry of products to come into existence that are solely for the purpose of undoing the change you made and these tools are wanted enough that you can sell them, that should be a huge Red Flag to you, not something you close your  eyes and say "nothing to see here, nothing to see here".   For you guys it was just a free add-on and your customer base isn't large enough to spawn something like what the RIbbon did but you still followed the same pattern except you didn't give your customers time to pick between the 2.

    There is also the simple lack of consideration.  While Tab history was a free add-on it was a free add-on to a pay to use product so not really "free".  It was also very clear to more than just a few of your paying customers that this thing wasn't really ready for release. You pushed out a beta product replacing something people clearly loved,  Maybe I missed the memo but where did this demand for a replacement to Tab History come from in the first place?  There may have been included in something somewhere in advance that "We are going to take away Tab History when we push this monster out" but it's very obvious many missed said memo and were completely caught off guard. What does it tell you when a portion of your customer base actively chooses to downgrade simply to avoid something you pushed out to them w/o any choice on their part? This may no longer be the case but I remember Tab History being an "optional" add-on meaning the amazing SQL Prompt could be used without being required to use Tab History. I believe the same was true with several other add-ons so that raises the question why was this thing which was clearly not ready for release, not optional?

    The entire thing was a poorly handled mess that Redgate effectively was able to move past ONLY because of time and fixes so that SQL HIstory is no longer a beta product and most importantly b/c you did this with an add-on and not the core product. Had this stunt been pulled with SQL prompt itself you would have seen a very different result, likely loosing customers to a competitor. SQL prompt may be the best but it's not the only SQL tool out there.  IDM's UltraEdit & UltraStudio products are always looking for that next thing they can add to their tools. They've looked at making it possible for their product to connect to data sources and if they had done that when you guys pulled this stunt you can bet I would have said goodbye and I doubt I'd have been the only one. 

    You guys really handled this very poorly, catching your customers off guard and then acting like as if it wasn't a big deal and with (what looked like) little care about it. Sure there was the expected apology that people expect companies have their lawyers draw up when they make a mess of things but today no one see's those as being anything genuine.  You're very lucky that some gifted person/people over there were able to fix the kludgy thing and quickly.  SQL history is still not as fast or easy to use as Tab History was and I wish I could give specific examples but I like many people usually stumble across those when we're under the gun ourselves and don't have time to pause what we are doing to write up a memo for you guys.  In the end you got lucky. Your existing reputation and quality of products (of everything but SQL History) is likely why this wasn't worse for you in terms of customer retention but if you do this kind of thing again I wouldn't count on your customers, your paying customers, being as patient/tolerant. 
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  • EdCardenEdCarden Posts: 138 Silver 2
    ATurner said:
    Hi all,
    SQL History has replaced tab history, thus it will not be coming back. However, the team is actively reading your feedback on what can be done to improve SQL History. In order to help us prioritize our development efforts, we would like to ask you to provide us with some concrete examples on how SQL history is not meeting your needs. This will help us understand your pain points better and address them more effectively.
    ATurner - Did you not run this by anyone in legal or public relations first?  Your very first sentence has an undertone of sarcasm and frustration. Yes you follow it up with your reading feedback and working on the thing but when you are engaging with your customers about a mess you caused I wouldn't tell them "X has replaced Y and X isn't coming back".  You instead could have written something like this:

    "SQL History has replaced Tab History in such a way that we can't bring Tab History back.  Hindsight is always 20/20 and if we could have done it differently we would have but we can't. What we are doing is working on trying to fix SQL history and with your feedback we hope that it will one day be to you what Tab History was if not more."

    Do you see the difference? Your message comes across like a frustrated parent disciplining their child; not a very good way to engage with your customers. Were you the one that made the call to replace Tab History with SQL History and so now you're frustrated that so many aren't happy with that decision? Or were you the one who created SQL History and so now your angry that so many are calling it garbage? I've enaged with RG employe Steve Jones many times and some where more complaints than compliments yet Steve was always professional.
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  • jimVisage1980jimVisage1980 Posts: 22 Silver 1
    Well said EdCarden.
    Alas I fear 'the team' will ignore you comments like they have all the others :-(

    The next bet should be what other much loved feature will silently disappear in the night....
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  • GaryHGaryH Posts: 6 Bronze 2

    Here are a few pain points.

    1.  Ouch.  That melon-sized Search throbber.  Why flash half the screen while the app does its work?  We all know that a throbber is just an animated gif that doesn't really show any work is being done. This one is a real eye-stabber. Just drop it. 

    2. Do some QA on using keyboard-only to navigate.  Behavior is really inconsistent. Sometimes focus will completely disappear, forcing me to use the mouse to get on a focused item.  This happens if you up-arrow beyond the top item, but also for what seems like no reason at all.  When you first open SQL History, nothing is focused, and you can't use the keyboard to gain focus.  It should initially set focus on the Recent Queries list.  Search result should do the same after results are returned. 

    3. Don't steal the ctrl-tab key!  Stepping through tabs gets stuck on SQL History and I can't ctrl-tab out of it, having to remember that, oh yeah, use Esc to get out. Once in SQL History, ctrl-tab does the same thing as tab, so I think this is probably a bug.

    4 Still wish it was as snappy as Tab History.  That thing was FAST.

    Thanks, and I hope someone reads this!






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  • Sarah BSarah B Posts: 121 Silver 2
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the changes regarding SQL History and Tab History. We appreciate your feedback and understand your concerns. Redgate continuously evaluates and refines our products to better serve our users, and wanted to confirm that your feedback has been picked up and has been reviewed by our product team. The detail on the change from Tab History to SQL History is here and you might also find this blog on the topic useful.
    We could have done more to respond to you earlier in this thread: for this we apologise. However, please rest assured we are     continuously improving and evolving our products to cover the broadest spectrum of the customer needs.
    Sarah Beckett| Customer Support| Redgate Software
    Have you visited our Help Center? 
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